Friends of Baguley. HALL

Friends of Baguley. HALL Our beautiful old hall is Manchester'oldest substantially unchanged building. The "spere and truss' constructed Great Hall dates from 1320.
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BAGULEY HALL Built in 1320 by Sir William De Baggelegh - a Knight of the Realm, landowner and owner of the Cheshire Salt Workings. Our group has been formed to support the new owners of Baguley Hall and to lobby for the full repair, restoration and community use of this remarkable survival of a medieval hall manor.

I have completed the opening chapter of the book of Baguley Hall, it is semi fictionalised in that everything in this ch...
27/11/2019
BAGULEY HALL BOOK TASTER

I have completed the opening chapter of the book of Baguley Hall, it is semi fictionalised in that everything in this chapter happened, All the names, places, situations are true and a matter of public record in the Coram Rege Roll 254, March 1325 when Sir William was summoned by Kings Bench to account for his actions, I have written it up as reportage, here are the opening few paragraphs by way of a taster!
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1p1YN9aYhBHg51p49gixZidGOkwOl7HLPf_IWPSBksE0/edit?usp=drivesdk

FRIENDS OF BAGULEY HALL HORROR ON A COLD, WET DAY IN CHESHIRE All names, places and situations taken from the Coram Rege Roll 254, March 1326, of cases heard by the King's Bench at Wigan, Sir William Dr Baguley was summoned to explain his actions On a cold October morning in the year of gr...

03/11/2019

Just putting out a few feelers, How many of you would like to see, and more importantly, buy a book on Baguley Hall, The Ancient Township and Its people through history?

There follows a

SYNOPSIS OF THE BOOK OF THE HALL
Prepared by Mathew Hopkins, 3rd October 2016

SCOPE
To produce an entertaining and informative history of Baguley Hall, The Ancient Township of Baguley and a history of the the DeBagulegh family and its later descendant’s marriage into The Legh and Tatton families. A lot of information is already on the page, in fact virtually anything that is available in the public realm is on there so culling and re-jigging my own work shouldnt be too much of a problem.

However, I know that Libby for one, will want to carry out her own researches into the DeBagulegh/Legh/Tatton, genealogy being her forte.
Colin Pigott is an expert on the vernacular buildings of the North West and likewise, he’ll want to do his work his way
.
It would be great if we can get Mike Kane MP to write a short introduction.
I am contacting Professor Michael Wood to see if he would write something for the book too, A preface maybe, If Libby and I can get access to the Tatton Muniments and photograph them then Michael would be our best bet on de-cyphering these ancient documents.

I would also like to get Jenna Ashton from University of Manchester to write a chapter on how she sees Baguley Hall’s role in relation to local Cultural and Heritage studies.

CONTENTS
We will cover the Hall or the immediate area from the Bronze Age onwards, It is little known but there are TWO Scheduled Ancient Monuments within 50 metres of each other, The Hall and Baguley Barrow, which is described as a Bronze Aged Windmill in its certification. This SAM was scandalously flattened and built over when Baguley Hall Secondary School (later Newall Green Lower School) was built in 1954. If there is anything left of it it now it is under someone’s back garden on Nethercote Avenue about 50 metres to the South East of the Hall.
Along the way, we’ll cover the Norman Invasion and its impact on the local area, the DeBaguleghs were retainers of Gilbert DeVenables who in turn was a retainer of Hugh Lupus, Norman Earl of Chester.

There were two Sir William DeBaguleghs, father and son and we’ll describe a particularly grizzly incident involving the Younger which shows how quick and nasty Norman justice was.

We will try and describe all the different phases that the Hall was built in, The Great Hall followed by the Jettied Tudor portico, The North wing which is mainly 14th century but with Tudor additions and the South Wing which is Georgian.
We will take a look at the various subsistence farmers and smallholders who tilled the land also, The Hall’s role as a manorial courthouse similar to a modern day Magistrate’s court.

We will look at the various owners or guardians of the Hall such as the Rev.Millington and Joseph Jackson of Rosethern who had no connection with the Hall’s previous owners.

We will discuss the Hall’s use as a Dower House and Wedding Present which brought the Hall back into the ownership of the Tattons and then in the mid 19th century to how the Hall was used as a farmhouse until 1940 when it was felt that the Hall’s beautiful and ancient glass windows were in danger and so placed into the vaults of Baxendale’s Bank in Manchester City Centre which then was a victim of a direct hit by The Luftwaffe, destroying them entirely.

Also, the scandalous misuse and neglect of the building by Manchester Corporation who used the building as a direct works timber store, introducing Woodworm and Dry Rot through the building. The corporation then deciding to demolish the building, a last minute petition garnered 12,000 signatures and our local MP the Rt.Hon Alf Morris to stand up and plead for the Hall to be, in effect, nationalised.

The Ministry of Works and then The Department of the Environment began an 11 year long program of Restoration and Repairs from 1971-1982 when the Hall was swathed in a corrugated iron protective shell whilst the slates were taken off the roof and remedial work carried out on all the rotten timbers within.
The Renovation works were complete by 1982 and since that date the Hall has been closed and there have been few people allowed within the building, Our group, Friends of Baguley Hall have managed to organise three tours of the building, towards the end of the book I think we should discuss what future we want for the building. I can see no reason why it cant be used for the good of all, Local residents, Schoolchildren, Historians, University Students etc,

PROPOSED CHAPTERS
1.Pre History, from the Bronze Age/Iron Age etc
2.The coming of the Angles
3.A general survey of Anglo Saxon tribes and their Kingdoms
4.The Tribal Hidage and Anglo Saxon Chronicle
5.Baguley during the Anglo Saxon period
6.The Norman Invasion and its effect on the North West
7.The Palatinate of Chester
8.The new owners of the Bagelei estates
9.The ‘Harrying’ of the north
10.Sir William de Baguley, Knight, Salt Magnate and Justiciar of the Peace
11.The buidling of Baguley Hall
12.The DeBagulegh’s marriage into the Tatton and Legh families
13.Additions to the Hall, North and South Wings and Jettied Porch
14.A Question of dating? The archaeological evidence for the previous Baguley Halls
15.Itinery of Baguley Hall from the Chester archives
16.Baguley Hall as a Farmhouse
17.Manchester Corporation take control in 1940
18.Near Destruction 1950-68
19.Alf Morris MP for Wythenshawe (1964-97) garners a petition of 12,000 signatures and addresses the House of Commons re Baguley Hall.
20.Ministry of Works, later Dept of the Environment take over and begin restoration
21.37 wasted years, What NEEDS to happen now.

Kind regards,

Mat Hopkins,
Founder and Chair, (2009-19) of FOBH

What an absolutely phenomenal meeting on Thursday night. Its like the gift that keeps on giving!We have some fantastic c...
27/09/2019

What an absolutely phenomenal meeting on Thursday night. Its like the gift that keeps on giving!

We have some fantastic community projects coming up. Joint ventures in the pipeline with Wythenshawe Waste Warriors and local schools, Wythenshawe History Group and the University of Manchester.

We have some very talented, creative people in our group. Emma has created some sample flags for bunting making sessions with schools.
David has put together pieces representing what Sir William de Baguley probably would have worn.
Along with his model Colin has also created his impression of what Baguley Hall could well have originally looked like.

We had a lovely lady who does quilting offer to make our group logo into a quilt for us to display.

Paige organised a visit last Wednesday to St Mary's Church in Bowdon to see Sir William de Baguley's effigy. (We'll give more info on this visit in another post.)

I'm actually finding it quite difficult to put into words how grateful I am to everyone in this group and for everything they are doing. We're just surrounded by so much love and positivity. Baguley Hall may not be accessible right now but these people are working towards a fantastic future. 🥰

Thankyou all of you so very much!

Regards Libby
Group Chair

Libby will be chatting to Mike Sweeney about the plans for the future of Baguley Hall. You can hear it on BBC Radio Manc...
12/09/2019

Libby will be chatting to Mike Sweeney about the plans for the future of Baguley Hall. You can hear it on BBC Radio Manchester at about 11.20am tomorrow (Friday 13th 🙀).

They've been broadcasting this week from a shop in Wythenshawe, promoting all the good things about the area.
#WeAreWythenshawe

This will be a brief interview but the FoBH Committee will be giving a more in depth update at our meeting on Thursday September 26th. See our event on here for more details on the time and location. Photos from Your Local Voice

10/09/2019

LINE OF DESCENT OF THE DE BAGULEGH HEIRS MALE

FROM NORMANDY TO BAGULEY VIA CORDOBA!
by Mathew Hopkins
___

INTRODUCTION
The history of the Ferte-Mace family, followed by the DeMasscys and ultimately the De Baguleghs I have traced back to 855ad in Cordoba in Spain followed by becoming subordinates of the rulers of Normandy by inter marriage. Serving in Duke Guillaume la Batard's invasion of England and being rewarded with Estates in North West England in the Palatinate of Chester. A polity semi-autonomous from the now King William the First.

They completed their position within the new regime with further inter marriage into the DeMasscy family who held fealty with Gilbert De Venables from whom he held fealty with Hugh Lupus, First Norman Earl of Chester

Yves De Creil
855-938
|
Fulcuin De Belleme (De Creil)
900-940
|
Yves De Creil, Governor of Creil
900-940
|
Guillaume I
970-1031
|
Guillaume II
985-1055
|
Guillaume De Ferte-Mace
1020-1070
|
Hamon De Massey (Bowdon. st.John a Jerusalem's patch;
1040-1101
|
Hamon De Mascy the Second
1100-1185
|
Hamon De Mascy the Third
1129-1216
|
Hamon De Massey the Fourth
1190-1240
|
Hamon De Mascy the Fifth
1210-1278
|
Lady Isabel De Mascy m Sir Ralph De Bagulegh
1238-1270
|
Sir William De Bagulegh the Elder
1253-1322
|
Sir William De Bagulegh the Younger
1280-1355
|
John De Bagulegh (brother)
1292-1460

John married into the Legh Family, Daughter married into Tattons. Originally, the De Baguleghs were retained men in the wider fighting force of Gilbert De Venables, who came over with Guillaume le Batard, William the Conquerer on his putative, and by no means certain, invasion of England.

If King Harold II hadn't have had to fight, and win, the Battle of Stamford Bridge near York, against his own brother and King Harald Hardrada and then route march down to Hastings on the South coast of England. Then the battle that was fought there may have had a very different outcome.

William's victory gave him instant access to a state of modern law giving and efficient tax gathering, Offa, Alfred, Aethelfled, Lady of the Mercians and Athelstan left a much more effective polity than the somewhat haphazard patchwork quilt of William's Duchy of Normandy.

Friends of Baguley. HALL
08/09/2019

Friends of Baguley. HALL

Here's Wythenshawe"s Third eldest building, Newall Green (Shenton's) Farm House, which dates from 1596, now restored and...
07/09/2019

Here's Wythenshawe"s Third eldest building, Newall Green (Shenton's) Farm House, which dates from 1596, now restored and renovated and providing supported accomodation for people with learning difficulties. Very heartening to see a positive outcome for this lovely old house.

So that's two buildings, this and Wythenshawe Hall restored and cherished...

. .So why can't this be done with our most Important, and 350 years older Hall at Baguley?

Hopefully we will see some movement soon, the FOBH have been rather quiet of late. An update would be very welcome.

Mat Hopkins
Founder, FOBH Chair 2009-19

Charles Schmidt's reconstruction of Baguley in the 11th centuryIt's as good an effort as anyone else has come up with!!a...
02/09/2019

Charles Schmidt's reconstruction of Baguley in the 11th century

It's as good an effort as anyone else has come up with!!

and he got the right trees (Willows) too!

Mat Hopkins

30/08/2019

The Post about Colin's model of the Medieval Baguley Hall has smashed all records with, wait for it, 10,100 views in the last 24 hours!!

Our previous highest number of views for a post was 1,200

Colin, you should be rightly proud that your model has struck such a spark.

Mat Hopkins

30/08/2019

The 3 images of Colin's model of Baguley Hall in 1320 have hit a nerve, gone viral and have been viewed nearly 8,000 times in less than 24 hours! Just goes to show the tremendous support Baguley Hall engenders

Mat Hopkins
FOBH Founder, Chair 2009-19

Our resident expert on medieval vernacular buildings, Colin G Piggott has created this wonderful model of Baguley Hall a...
29/08/2019

Our resident expert on medieval vernacular buildings, Colin G Piggott has created this wonderful model of Baguley Hall as seen before the Tudor and Georgian additions to the building.

This is how Baguley Hall would have looked in the early 14th century. The slate roof has been in situ since 1320, the windows probably had no glass in them and we're used for ventilation as much as for light.

Colin believes that the structure holds many similarities with the Viking Stave churches and Halls of Scandinavia. What's so special about Baguley Hall? It's the only ORIGINAL building of Venacular Viking Architecture left ANYWHERE! Anything else you may see in modern Scandinavia are reconstructions.

But we have the genuine article right here in the middle of Wythenshawe!

..should be a World Heritage Site never mind anything else. IMHO.

So here it is, Baguley Hall, as seen in 1320 without additions and extensions! First pic is a rear view, Second and Third pics are the front views.

Well done Colin!

Mat Hopkins,
FOBH Founder

22/07/2019

To All Friends,

Many thanks for all your kind words over the last few weeks.

They were, and are much appreciated

Firstly, can I implore you to get behind Libby, Peter and the rest of the Baguley Hall Committee - They represent the best chance Baguley Hall has had in being freed from its red tape quagmire in several decades!

Secondly, speaking of the committee, can those who are members send me your name/Facebook ID and I will get you added as Admins for this page.

Lastly, I will be handing over ownership of this page over the next few weeks as well as the "friends,[email protected]" email address once I can get the Personal Profile page split off from the Group page. Libby, can you investigate what needs to be done on this, Its a bit of a mess in that I use the email address as my Personal FB page and Google log in, my bad!

Once again, many thanks for your response..

Regards,

Mat Hopkins
FOBH Founder

18/07/2019

Dear Friends,

Bit of a sad one this, as you're probably aware I came back to the campaign in October of last year having handed over to a person who shall remain nameless to find that absolutely nothing had been done with this page or the campaign in general. So I started to ramp up the Campaign with the intention of handing over to anyone with the same desire to see something done with Baguley Hall.

Well, I was very lucky to find Libby and Peter who have been incredibly lucky in getting a few talented people around them to form an Action Committee.

So really, I have put myself out of a Job and having no time for backseat drivers I have decided to withdraw completely from Friends of Baguley Hall.

I don't believe my presence can add anything to the situation and so this is a final goodbye knowing that everything is ok good hands for the future.

So all the best of luck for the future and remember that 1320 is the 700th anniversary of the building and this is where you can really ramp up the publicity for the Hall.

Also, you'll need to contact Facebook to try and get the Page 'divorced from my own personal account (same login)

So Farewell to everyone who has given their support and you have a team who are determined to see ac tion and soon. They have their way of doing things and I commend that you all get behind them and let them try their best, that is all we can ask!

,

All the best luck for the future.

Kind regards,
###XX
Mat Hopkins

About time and about 70 years too late, I know this has nothing to do with an ancient building but here's one overlooked...
15/07/2019
Alan Turing to be face of new £50 note in first for LGBT community

About time and about 70 years too late, I know this has nothing to do with an ancient building but here's one overlooked genius and adopted Mancunian given belated recognition.

Now it's up to us to make sure that Mancunians know about their oldest and most important building, lets hope this doesn't take 70 years!

Mat Hopkins
Founder of FOBH, and came out as GAY to my parents in 1988 Aged 21, when only two years earlier it was still considered abnormal and bigots like GMP Chief Constable James Anderton said this about AIDS:

"“Everywhere I go I see evidence of people swirling around in the cesspool of their own making. Why do homosexuals freely engage in sodomy and other obnoxious sexual practices knowing the dangers involved?”"

Alan Turing, the mathematician who helped invent modern computing and break the Enigma code, will be the face of the new £50 note, the Bank of England announced today.

BAGULEY HALL GEOPHYSICAL SURVEY BY SMART ARCHEOLOGY GROUP IN 2011COPYRIGHT OF SMART Reproduced by kind permissionhttps:/...
13/07/2019
baguley_20hall_20geo_20phys_202011_20micro_465722593564446

BAGULEY HALL GEOPHYSICAL SURVEY BY SMART ARCHEOLOGY GROUP IN 2011

COPYRIGHT OF SMART Reproduced by kind permission

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KyMxCpwm4iErZtgcMJL8ViJYsaehva8eemKci7Wxqfk/edit?usp=drivesdk

Baguley Hall lost buildings Geophysical Survey View from the west, photograph taken by Andy Coutts Report by Andy Coutts (S.M.A.R.T) April 2011 © SMART Baguley Hall grounds February – March 2011 Contents _________________________________________________...

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M23 1JA

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